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swissmargI don't know, I was bored this afternoon and this interview just came out, so I transcribed it. There's nothing new in it, he pretty much repeats things he's said in previous interviews, but here you are.
The podcast of the original interview from 15 May 2012 on Bullseye with Jesse Thorn and broadcast on Public Radio International can be found here. There were three clips played during the interview from various episodes of Sherlock, but I didn't transcribe those, as they are available elsewhere.
THORN: It's Bullseye, I'm Jesse Thorn. The Guiness Book of World Records says that Sherlock Holmes is the most represented fictional character in film and television history. More than six dozen men have plopped a deerstalker cap onto their heads, put a pipe between their teeth, and stepped in front of a camera to solve some mysteries. But my guest Benedict Cumberbatch is more than just the latest to take part in a proud and tweedy tradition. His Holmes is a different breed. He's the star of Sherlock, the BBC One series that's captivated the U.K. with ten million viewers an episode. It moves Holmes and Watson into the present day. No more deerstalker, no more tweed. The royal scandals involve internet dominatrices, not opera singers, but Holmes' brilliant mind and impatience for everyone else on earth besides Sherlock Holmes remain. Here's Cumberbatch as Holmes from the show's first series, demonstrating his detective powers at a crime scene.
*clip*
THORN: When he's not solving crimes, Cumberbatch has made time for roles in War Horse and Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy, among others, and he's got some pretty high-profile film roles on the horizon. He'll be the bad guy, or as he's put it, the not-so-good guy in the new Star Trek film, and he'll voice Smaug the Dragon in The Hobbit. The grand finale of the second series of Sherlock airs Sunday, May 20th on PBS, and the second series hits stores on DVD a few days later. Benedict Cumberbatch, welcome to Bullseye, it's great to have you on the show.
CUMBERBATCH: Thank you very much, lovely to be on the show.
THORN: Sherlock Holmes, depending on your definition of fictional character-
CUMBERBATCH: Mm.
THORN: -I think that God, Jesus, and Santa Claus are- appear in more films and television shows than Sherlock Holmes. But-
CUMBERBATCH: (chuckles) Only just.
THORN: Yeah. Sherlock Holmes has been in hundreds of films and television programmes-
CUMBERBATCH: Yeah.
THORN: -portrayed by dozens of actors, and when you auditioned for this role, you're running up against not just, you know, Basil Rathbone or whatever, but this accumulation of cruft (?) of hundreds of people-
CUMBERBATCH: Yeah.
THORN: -and ideas of hundreds of people.
CUMBERBATCH: Mm.
THORN: How can you, when you get the sides for an audition for a part like that, how can you do anything that's not just a pastiche of your ideas of what this guy is? How do you find something that's actual in that?
CUMBERBATCH: That's a good question. Well, what did I do? I saw the strengths of their script, I saw what they were wanting to bring to life. But yeah, you're entering a pantheon of what, seventy plus actors have already trodden in the footsteps of that role? I- but you can't, you just dissasociate with all that, it's a little bit like going for any audition, you walk into the room, and you forget the fact that you've just left a waiting room with five other people who are equally if not better suited for the part than you, and you think, 'I am the only person they're seeing today, and that's all that matters is what happens now.' Because you can't take on that baggage, you know, any level of performance and craft in the performing arts is about being present in the moment, and I think while there are some massive technical things to master with Holmes, feats of memory and line-learning which I always struggle with, and you know, the physical technicalities of hitting a mark, speaking at that pace and the alacrity of his movement and as well as his intellect, so you know, all of that requires a certain amount of technical skill, but you still, the best takes, the ones that work are the ones where you, that just happens, and it's there and it's a given and something fresh occurs. Christ, I mean, we had a bit of a blank canvas with this one, it's twenty-first century after all, and while Holmes is a modern man and was, you know, up to his eyeballs in cutting edge science and the burgeoning technology of the scien- you know, criminal pathology in his original state, you know-
THORN: He's always pouring one beaker into another beaker..
CUMBERBATCH: Well, you know, there's a bit of that going on, exactly, but you know, my point is that you know, there's- that you know, that he's somebody who... There's a lot to draw parallels with in modern life from the original as there is obviously having him in modern life. There's a lot that I can use that's modern, that's going to make it feel as if it is a fresh take on Holmes. And also I think what they thought I'd lend to it, which is true because of the way I look and I have a high neck and, you know have done stuff in period costumes before, is that, you know, I've got a slightly old world, old soul, otherworldly quality, which sort of marries that junction between someone who is Victorian, who we are honouring as a Victorian hero, even though he's playing with an iPhone and surfing the net and, you know, performing a million sort of social and modern media functions in the blink of an eye. I guess that was it really. I guess that was it. It was just going in with confidence, the confidence that that character required and the script and the updating of it required.
THORN: The confidence of Sherlock Holmes is more than just confidence. It comes from the fact that he essentially lives in a different world than everyone else who surrounds him, even the person that he relates to most, which is Dr Watson. He still is- He still is in his own world, and his confidence is really just a matter of almost floating above – or dazzling above – everyone else. It's like a crazy headlong dash in a- through space.
CUMBERBATCH: Yeah. It is, it's something sort of slightly ... other than human. I mean what it is really is that he's making synaptical connections faster than we can think, but he's verbalising them at the same time, so he is speaking at a speed of thought which is pretty daunting to most people, let alone that he can structure language around it to communicate it and explain it, and I think what he ciphers out of his life, much to the cost, and that's a lot of what this second series, the story arc of his development is, is these obstructions as he sees them to being robotic in his ability to solve things logically and have control and power through being able to organise and understand the world logically and then he meets his polarity in Moriarty, who is all about trying to explain that there is no logic, there is no control, there is only chaos, and I am going to bring about chaos, and you will have to embrace it because you need me, or if you don't you have to fight it, but either way you need me. And I think that's kind of, you know, what he achieves, Sherlock, is almost superhuman, but actually what I love about him as a hero, as an iconic hero, and one that took, with the first series, children back to the original books to read him and love him as a hero in the modern world or in the original books in the Victorian world, is the fact that it's achievable. It was based on a doctor that, you know, Conan Doyle knew who formed these massive, well narratives really, out of sporadic detail that were sewn together to form fact of deduction, to bring together a point of view or an understanding, you know, an A to B commute with Sherlock Holmes in London is suddenly a pop-up book of adventure and possibility, it's- He turns the world into something rich with narrative, and that's why he works, that's why he still works, that's why stories love- the story writers love to use him, because he's a gift to story writers, he is- he carries around so many stories in what he sees. You can watch one series or one episode of ours and you think, you know, you- 'Gosh, so much happened.' Well, sometimes, an awful lot doesn't happen, because it's about what is perceived to have happened through this man, he makes these massive leaps which cut out huge needs for, you know, slow procedural bit by bit 'Oh yeah, that's right, oh that's right, that's right,' he just gets it all in the blink of an eye. And it's thri- It's just thrilling to go on a ride with him, but what I do like about the superhuman qualities actually in a weird way, A: how being human is his gravity and actually, what I think this series is also about is discovering that's a strength, that feelings, emotions, things that he has ostracised himself from in order to protect, maintain, and master this cold, calculating, logical machine that he wants to be, are actually sources of strength for that cold, calculating, logical machine, because he still has to have an understanding of humanity in order to control it or save it or whatever it is that he as an ego wants to achieve.
THORN: After a break, more with the actor Benedict Cumberbatch from PBS Masterpiece's Sherlock. He'll reveal what he learned after being carjacked, abducted, and left for dead in the trunk of a car. All of which really happened to him. It's Bullseye for maximumfun dot org and PRI, Public Radio International.
*adverts*
THORN: It's Bullseye, I'm Jesse Thorn. My guest is the actor Benedict Cumberbatch. He plays the titular character on PBS Masterpiece's Sherlock. It's a modern take on the most famous of all fictional detectives. In this clip from the series' first episode, Sherlock Holmes impresses his new companion, Dr John Watson played by Martin Freeman, by telling him everything he's picked up about him in the short time since they've met.
*clip*
THORN: One of the things that I found the most compelling about the relationship between Watson and Holmes is that Watson, as portrayed by Martin Freeman, is a veteran, he's an army doctor, as-
CUMBERBATCH: Yes.
THORN: -in the stories-
CUMBERBATCH: Yeah.
THORN: -and he's struggling with Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, Post-Traumatic Stress Syndrome-
CUMBERBATCH: Yeah.
THORN: -and, you know, PTSD is something that can- It can cause tremendous difficulties in relating to others, that's one of the greatest challenges that people with PTSD suffer from, and you know, I- It's, you know, it's very vivid for me because I grew up in a family with a father who was disabled by service-related PTSD. And you know, watching these two characters, who each in their way, is struggling to fi- are struggling to find a way to relate to each other-
CUMBERBATCH: Mm.
THORN: -and to the world-
CUMBERBATCH: Mm.
THORN: -is-
CUMBERBATCH: It's kind of moving, isn't it? I mean, it's kind of moving. And it's in a way, you know, jokes aside about what the sexuality or implied sexuality of either of them are, I mean you can't- John's a ladies' man, and he's asexual until he meets Irene Adler, and then something switches on in him which he thought he had control over, but I agree with I think what you were pointing out, which is that they are two men, find- trying to find a context in society, and both have, one through something imposed I guess by the trauma of being in the theatre of war, and the other, self-imposed, have these elements that make them both outsiders so they find a community with each other, and a sort of strength from each other. And that's very touching to me, and I think, you know, I spoke to a lot of people, well two or three people particularly at an awards ceremony, the GQ Awards this year, who were so grateful to Martin's performance and portrayal of Watson because, you know, while it's great fun and it's distracting, and it's good, fun telly for them to watch, they felt that something was being represented. Now of course with his character, it's not a disability through an IED, it's not a trauma that's marked him physically, he has a sort of socio- sociopathic- a psychosomatic associated wound, which Sherlock gets very very early on, as not being to do with his leg but something else, what his problem is, is that he, in a sort of Travis Bickell vein, I guess, can't re-assimilate with society because he actually misses the thrill of the theatre of war, and that's a very dark and awkward and difficult thing to confess to, which is why I guess it sort of surfaces as nightmares and the limp, because you're suppressing a desire to go back into combat for the thrill of being that adrenalised by knowing your life is held in the balance by a thread and, you know, and your colleagues around you, and your entire situation is constantly insecure. I mean, that's quite something to admit to actually enjoying, and I think it's sort of shameful in a way, to some people, but it's born out of service and dignity and honour and being a good soldier, which are all qualities that should be anything but shameful. I think, you know, an awful lot of people coming back from service in the wars that we're fighting at the moment and have been fighting over the last ten years have a huge problem with assimilating back into a society that views them as doing a necessary job, but is a little bit off-put by the idea that, you know, they might have killed people or experienced things which are beyond their understanding, and you know, was it really a legal war, and all the politics that confuse the basic pure fact of being a soldier, which is just – well from my point of view – unfathomably hard, I don't know how people do it, and it's – you know, people talk about heroics and lists of people, and all sorts of nonsense issues going on at the moment, and I just think it's embarrassing, because you think of the people who deliver our security whether they're fighting abroad, whether they're policing our borders here, whether people who take care of the elderly, who are single mums, people who are teaching the underpriveleged in our world, who are doctoring areas in the- There's a huge body of heroism going on all the time, so it's very nice that we have a character that's fully ingrained in that world and that Sherlock has a real respect and understanding of Watson's military background capabilities, and that's meted out in the first instant they meet, and obviously by the end of that episode – for those who haven't seen it I won't say anything, but basically Sherlock owes his life to Watson, and that's the bond that bears them through all the highs and lows of living with a very difficult flatmate, which alone is a heroic feat on Sher- on Watson's part, I think. I would not like to live with Sherlock. Anyway, there we go. I prefer my fridge to be clean of fingers and heads, have more fresh lettuce in the crisper drawer, and stuff like that.
THORN: It's Bullseye, I'm Jesse Thorn. My guest is the actor Benedict Cumberbatch. He stars in PBS Masterpiece's Sherlock. In this clip from the series two premiere, Benedict Cumberbatch's ever observant Sherlock Holmes may have finally met his match in the seductive Irene Adler, played by Lara Pulver.
*clip*
THORN: I want to ask you a sort of a personal question.
CUMBERBATCH: Sure.
THORN: And you can answer this to the extent that you feel comfortable.
CUMBERBATCH: Sure.
THORN: Quite a while ago, you were carjacked and abducted-
CUMBERBATCH: Yeah.
THORN: -in South Africa while shooting an entirely different project.
CUMBERBATCH: Yeah. That's right.
THORN: This was in 2004 I believe.
CUMBERBATCH: Yeah.
THORN: And you know, the trauma associated with that, I can only im- I can only presume must have been tremendous. And I wonder how going through that experience affected your life.
CUMBERBATCH: Well, it's interesting. I mean, I- there's- One event where I can empathise with Sherlock's impatience. I think it made me for a while that was the hardest thing for anyone around me to deal with was that I yearned for a life less ordinary with every second I had to breathe because I came face to face with some very plain facts. One is that you die on your own, no matter who you're with, or who you're leaving behind, you have to face death on your own. And also the fact that I was too young to die made me angry to live, if that makes any kind of a sense. So I had a sort of profound insight really, and a fantastic dinner party anecdote at the hands of these people who, you know, it could have been a lot worse, I could have been left with scars, physical and emotionally that could have been a lot worse. I wasn't beaten up, I was pushed around a bit, and tied up and put in the boot of a car as well as the side of the road and had a gun put to my head, but I wasn't pistol whipped, I wasn't beaten with a stick, I wasn't kicked, I wasn't raped, I wasn't cut, you know there was an awful lot that didn't happen that I can be thankful for, because ultimately it was a small event in a very big country, and the next day there was a newspaper headline to give perspective that immediately rationalised what had happened to us, and you know to give a context for how this is something to be got over rather than be traumatised by. A man was hijacked- carjacked at the side of- not at the side of the road, at the crossing, and the guy panicked and shot him before he even knew what was in the car, and there was a two-rand coin, which is, I mean it's decimal points, doesn't even value a cent, and a lighter, that's all that was in his car. There was the car and the guy got caught and I don't even know if he was shot as well or whether he was taken down, but it was a very very big event in my life, but it's one that I've learnt from rather than been traumatised from. I went to see a counselor the minute after it happened that we had that on offer, and one of the other actors that I was with did, and the other actress did, and I think it was harder for them. I'm not going to speak for them on this programme, but I think you know the main way it changed me was it made me- I- in the media aftermath was that I... well, I was, I cried the first time I felt the sun on my face the next day. You know, there were a lot of sort of almost born-again resurrected feelings, this thing of the preciousness and wonderful and beauty that is life, I mean it's just such a blessing. I know that sounds a bit soppy, but when you've come near death, you've really, really, really learned to re-evaluate it and appreciate it, and that's a great thing to get in your twenties, because you start, you know using your vivacity not to kick against the idea of, oh I'm immortal, there's no such thing as mortality, but to embrace your mortality and take control of it, so I went off and skydove, and I swam with sharks, and I did lots of kind of crazy, adrenaline-fueled stuff, but I also traveled on my own for a month afterwards around Namibia and Capetown, and sat and it sat in my feelings, pondered it, dwelled on it, moved around in it, dismissed it, came back to it, you know, it's always there, and I'm fine talking about it. It's a fucking exhausting anecdote – I'm not going to excuse my swearing there because it's a really big story to go into.
THORN: Seems reasonable.
CUMBERBATCH: It is in this instance, I think you can believe me on that and I think people might understand, it's a big story, and it's a wonderful one to tell, but I do kind of feel a bit pale and worn after going through it, but it's not something... I don't know if- you know, I've had near death experiences since then, and that's obviously been the most acute one, I should say. I would say, rather. But I've got nothing other than good out of it really. I think the positive drive you get out of wanting to live a life less ordinary has borne fruit I think. You know I quelled the other things in me that sort of knocked my equilibrium or calm about a bit. I've kind of dealt with a lot of those. Yeah, so I mean it kind of, it happened, not for a reason, because I don't think these things do, it just, I was in that place at that time. But it was an extraordinary, extraordinary thing, and it's- It has definitely shaped part of who I am.
THORN: Were you able to find a way to... to find equilibrium again? I mean, to get ?? did it help you-
CUMBERBATCH: Yeah, I mean, I had the job for a start, so I had to focus on a very different reality and set of circumstances to my own, and that was a massive- as it is in an actor's life, it is a massive headspace to occupy. And then to settle the equilibrium, yeah, it took time, of course it took time, and you know, I struggled with it, and with the other two actors, and you know, you go through- Well, I don't know that you in general go through, one goes through in general, but I certainly went through the thing of, wow, I need innoculating, I need to just be knocked out, you know, drink a lot of whiskey and take a sleeping pill, then I got ill because I came off the sleeping pill and then that day passed and then I was completely fine again. That was- I had a very sort of accelerated experience on the night and a very accelerated recovery. And I went to see the counselor twice, the second time he says, 'You're more than fine. You are. You're a strong man, you're going to be good.' And I believed him, and he's right. (chuckles) Thank God. But you know, yeah, of course, it's rosy, but it takes you a while to- I mean, extraordinary things happened on that and I don't know how much you've read about it but one of the things that happened was as we found our salvation in this roadside curio shop that was run off the back of this other drive-through safari park where all these cooperatives had been making woven baskets and fantastic, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful original artifacts, carvings and bowls made out of wires and recycled beads and just extraordinary objects and it was run by about three or four women who were in this hut and there were two or three men standing guard because it was a roadside truck stop for the night, so people would come and you know, get some Coca-Cola or whatever or just relieve themselves and have a gossip, and that was our- that was the light on the horizon we ran to after we discovered that we were actually finally left alone tied at the side of the road and they'd gone. And when I was there I had- my shoelace was still tied around my right hand, I hadn't bothered untying it, and as I was telling the story and these women were clucking and tutting and ticking and just, and crying and shaking their heads, saying 'For shame, for shame! They steal from us too, they steal from the poor, it's so bad, we're so sorry this happened to you in our country.' It was profoundly moving, and then to add to that, this hand came out, this black hand came out and untied the thing that had been used for my bondage of my white flesh and the whole thing just snowballed in my head, everything, everything, everything we've- well, whites have done to that culture and just the whole thing suddenly smashed in, and it was a profoundly moving moment that- and I looked up into this man's face having being scared by the men that were there initially because, could they be part of the gang because obviously everybody, I know especially because we had our head to the ground and our eyes averted from their face because they didn't want us to i- If you identify them, it's- you're a far more likely target for a killing, so you practice hard at not witnessing what's going on, and to be able to look into a black man's face in the night in South Africa and say thank you with tears running down your face as he takes away this final sort of token I guess of the night's trauma, it was- That was wonderful, and I- that was a huge part of the healing. And I wrote to him soon afterwards to explain that to him and he understood exactly what I meant.
THORN: Well, I really appreciate you taking the time to be on our show, Benedict-
CUMBERBATCH: That's a pleasure.
THORN: It was really nice to talk to you.
CUMBERBATCH: Absolute pleasure. I hope that was all right.
THORN: Benedict Cumberbatch is the star of Sherlock. The season finale airs Sunday, May 20th on PBS. It's available- the second series is available on DVD on May 22nd.
The podcast of the original interview from 15 May 2012 on Bullseye with Jesse Thorn and broadcast on Public Radio International can be found here. There were three clips played during the interview from various episodes of Sherlock, but I didn't transcribe those, as they are available elsewhere.
THORN: It's Bullseye, I'm Jesse Thorn. The Guiness Book of World Records says that Sherlock Holmes is the most represented fictional character in film and television history. More than six dozen men have plopped a deerstalker cap onto their heads, put a pipe between their teeth, and stepped in front of a camera to solve some mysteries. But my guest Benedict Cumberbatch is more than just the latest to take part in a proud and tweedy tradition. His Holmes is a different breed. He's the star of Sherlock, the BBC One series that's captivated the U.K. with ten million viewers an episode. It moves Holmes and Watson into the present day. No more deerstalker, no more tweed. The royal scandals involve internet dominatrices, not opera singers, but Holmes' brilliant mind and impatience for everyone else on earth besides Sherlock Holmes remain. Here's Cumberbatch as Holmes from the show's first series, demonstrating his detective powers at a crime scene.
*clip*
THORN: When he's not solving crimes, Cumberbatch has made time for roles in War Horse and Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy, among others, and he's got some pretty high-profile film roles on the horizon. He'll be the bad guy, or as he's put it, the not-so-good guy in the new Star Trek film, and he'll voice Smaug the Dragon in The Hobbit. The grand finale of the second series of Sherlock airs Sunday, May 20th on PBS, and the second series hits stores on DVD a few days later. Benedict Cumberbatch, welcome to Bullseye, it's great to have you on the show.
CUMBERBATCH: Thank you very much, lovely to be on the show.
THORN: Sherlock Holmes, depending on your definition of fictional character-
CUMBERBATCH: Mm.
THORN: -I think that God, Jesus, and Santa Claus are- appear in more films and television shows than Sherlock Holmes. But-
CUMBERBATCH: (chuckles) Only just.
THORN: Yeah. Sherlock Holmes has been in hundreds of films and television programmes-
CUMBERBATCH: Yeah.
THORN: -portrayed by dozens of actors, and when you auditioned for this role, you're running up against not just, you know, Basil Rathbone or whatever, but this accumulation of cruft (?) of hundreds of people-
CUMBERBATCH: Yeah.
THORN: -and ideas of hundreds of people.
CUMBERBATCH: Mm.
THORN: How can you, when you get the sides for an audition for a part like that, how can you do anything that's not just a pastiche of your ideas of what this guy is? How do you find something that's actual in that?
CUMBERBATCH: That's a good question. Well, what did I do? I saw the strengths of their script, I saw what they were wanting to bring to life. But yeah, you're entering a pantheon of what, seventy plus actors have already trodden in the footsteps of that role? I- but you can't, you just dissasociate with all that, it's a little bit like going for any audition, you walk into the room, and you forget the fact that you've just left a waiting room with five other people who are equally if not better suited for the part than you, and you think, 'I am the only person they're seeing today, and that's all that matters is what happens now.' Because you can't take on that baggage, you know, any level of performance and craft in the performing arts is about being present in the moment, and I think while there are some massive technical things to master with Holmes, feats of memory and line-learning which I always struggle with, and you know, the physical technicalities of hitting a mark, speaking at that pace and the alacrity of his movement and as well as his intellect, so you know, all of that requires a certain amount of technical skill, but you still, the best takes, the ones that work are the ones where you, that just happens, and it's there and it's a given and something fresh occurs. Christ, I mean, we had a bit of a blank canvas with this one, it's twenty-first century after all, and while Holmes is a modern man and was, you know, up to his eyeballs in cutting edge science and the burgeoning technology of the scien- you know, criminal pathology in his original state, you know-
THORN: He's always pouring one beaker into another beaker..
CUMBERBATCH: Well, you know, there's a bit of that going on, exactly, but you know, my point is that you know, there's- that you know, that he's somebody who... There's a lot to draw parallels with in modern life from the original as there is obviously having him in modern life. There's a lot that I can use that's modern, that's going to make it feel as if it is a fresh take on Holmes. And also I think what they thought I'd lend to it, which is true because of the way I look and I have a high neck and, you know have done stuff in period costumes before, is that, you know, I've got a slightly old world, old soul, otherworldly quality, which sort of marries that junction between someone who is Victorian, who we are honouring as a Victorian hero, even though he's playing with an iPhone and surfing the net and, you know, performing a million sort of social and modern media functions in the blink of an eye. I guess that was it really. I guess that was it. It was just going in with confidence, the confidence that that character required and the script and the updating of it required.
THORN: The confidence of Sherlock Holmes is more than just confidence. It comes from the fact that he essentially lives in a different world than everyone else who surrounds him, even the person that he relates to most, which is Dr Watson. He still is- He still is in his own world, and his confidence is really just a matter of almost floating above – or dazzling above – everyone else. It's like a crazy headlong dash in a- through space.
CUMBERBATCH: Yeah. It is, it's something sort of slightly ... other than human. I mean what it is really is that he's making synaptical connections faster than we can think, but he's verbalising them at the same time, so he is speaking at a speed of thought which is pretty daunting to most people, let alone that he can structure language around it to communicate it and explain it, and I think what he ciphers out of his life, much to the cost, and that's a lot of what this second series, the story arc of his development is, is these obstructions as he sees them to being robotic in his ability to solve things logically and have control and power through being able to organise and understand the world logically and then he meets his polarity in Moriarty, who is all about trying to explain that there is no logic, there is no control, there is only chaos, and I am going to bring about chaos, and you will have to embrace it because you need me, or if you don't you have to fight it, but either way you need me. And I think that's kind of, you know, what he achieves, Sherlock, is almost superhuman, but actually what I love about him as a hero, as an iconic hero, and one that took, with the first series, children back to the original books to read him and love him as a hero in the modern world or in the original books in the Victorian world, is the fact that it's achievable. It was based on a doctor that, you know, Conan Doyle knew who formed these massive, well narratives really, out of sporadic detail that were sewn together to form fact of deduction, to bring together a point of view or an understanding, you know, an A to B commute with Sherlock Holmes in London is suddenly a pop-up book of adventure and possibility, it's- He turns the world into something rich with narrative, and that's why he works, that's why he still works, that's why stories love- the story writers love to use him, because he's a gift to story writers, he is- he carries around so many stories in what he sees. You can watch one series or one episode of ours and you think, you know, you- 'Gosh, so much happened.' Well, sometimes, an awful lot doesn't happen, because it's about what is perceived to have happened through this man, he makes these massive leaps which cut out huge needs for, you know, slow procedural bit by bit 'Oh yeah, that's right, oh that's right, that's right,' he just gets it all in the blink of an eye. And it's thri- It's just thrilling to go on a ride with him, but what I do like about the superhuman qualities actually in a weird way, A: how being human is his gravity and actually, what I think this series is also about is discovering that's a strength, that feelings, emotions, things that he has ostracised himself from in order to protect, maintain, and master this cold, calculating, logical machine that he wants to be, are actually sources of strength for that cold, calculating, logical machine, because he still has to have an understanding of humanity in order to control it or save it or whatever it is that he as an ego wants to achieve.
THORN: After a break, more with the actor Benedict Cumberbatch from PBS Masterpiece's Sherlock. He'll reveal what he learned after being carjacked, abducted, and left for dead in the trunk of a car. All of which really happened to him. It's Bullseye for maximumfun dot org and PRI, Public Radio International.
*adverts*
THORN: It's Bullseye, I'm Jesse Thorn. My guest is the actor Benedict Cumberbatch. He plays the titular character on PBS Masterpiece's Sherlock. It's a modern take on the most famous of all fictional detectives. In this clip from the series' first episode, Sherlock Holmes impresses his new companion, Dr John Watson played by Martin Freeman, by telling him everything he's picked up about him in the short time since they've met.
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THORN: One of the things that I found the most compelling about the relationship between Watson and Holmes is that Watson, as portrayed by Martin Freeman, is a veteran, he's an army doctor, as-
CUMBERBATCH: Yes.
THORN: -in the stories-
CUMBERBATCH: Yeah.
THORN: -and he's struggling with Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, Post-Traumatic Stress Syndrome-
CUMBERBATCH: Yeah.
THORN: -and, you know, PTSD is something that can- It can cause tremendous difficulties in relating to others, that's one of the greatest challenges that people with PTSD suffer from, and you know, I- It's, you know, it's very vivid for me because I grew up in a family with a father who was disabled by service-related PTSD. And you know, watching these two characters, who each in their way, is struggling to fi- are struggling to find a way to relate to each other-
CUMBERBATCH: Mm.
THORN: -and to the world-
CUMBERBATCH: Mm.
THORN: -is-
CUMBERBATCH: It's kind of moving, isn't it? I mean, it's kind of moving. And it's in a way, you know, jokes aside about what the sexuality or implied sexuality of either of them are, I mean you can't- John's a ladies' man, and he's asexual until he meets Irene Adler, and then something switches on in him which he thought he had control over, but I agree with I think what you were pointing out, which is that they are two men, find- trying to find a context in society, and both have, one through something imposed I guess by the trauma of being in the theatre of war, and the other, self-imposed, have these elements that make them both outsiders so they find a community with each other, and a sort of strength from each other. And that's very touching to me, and I think, you know, I spoke to a lot of people, well two or three people particularly at an awards ceremony, the GQ Awards this year, who were so grateful to Martin's performance and portrayal of Watson because, you know, while it's great fun and it's distracting, and it's good, fun telly for them to watch, they felt that something was being represented. Now of course with his character, it's not a disability through an IED, it's not a trauma that's marked him physically, he has a sort of socio- sociopathic- a psychosomatic associated wound, which Sherlock gets very very early on, as not being to do with his leg but something else, what his problem is, is that he, in a sort of Travis Bickell vein, I guess, can't re-assimilate with society because he actually misses the thrill of the theatre of war, and that's a very dark and awkward and difficult thing to confess to, which is why I guess it sort of surfaces as nightmares and the limp, because you're suppressing a desire to go back into combat for the thrill of being that adrenalised by knowing your life is held in the balance by a thread and, you know, and your colleagues around you, and your entire situation is constantly insecure. I mean, that's quite something to admit to actually enjoying, and I think it's sort of shameful in a way, to some people, but it's born out of service and dignity and honour and being a good soldier, which are all qualities that should be anything but shameful. I think, you know, an awful lot of people coming back from service in the wars that we're fighting at the moment and have been fighting over the last ten years have a huge problem with assimilating back into a society that views them as doing a necessary job, but is a little bit off-put by the idea that, you know, they might have killed people or experienced things which are beyond their understanding, and you know, was it really a legal war, and all the politics that confuse the basic pure fact of being a soldier, which is just – well from my point of view – unfathomably hard, I don't know how people do it, and it's – you know, people talk about heroics and lists of people, and all sorts of nonsense issues going on at the moment, and I just think it's embarrassing, because you think of the people who deliver our security whether they're fighting abroad, whether they're policing our borders here, whether people who take care of the elderly, who are single mums, people who are teaching the underpriveleged in our world, who are doctoring areas in the- There's a huge body of heroism going on all the time, so it's very nice that we have a character that's fully ingrained in that world and that Sherlock has a real respect and understanding of Watson's military background capabilities, and that's meted out in the first instant they meet, and obviously by the end of that episode – for those who haven't seen it I won't say anything, but basically Sherlock owes his life to Watson, and that's the bond that bears them through all the highs and lows of living with a very difficult flatmate, which alone is a heroic feat on Sher- on Watson's part, I think. I would not like to live with Sherlock. Anyway, there we go. I prefer my fridge to be clean of fingers and heads, have more fresh lettuce in the crisper drawer, and stuff like that.
THORN: It's Bullseye, I'm Jesse Thorn. My guest is the actor Benedict Cumberbatch. He stars in PBS Masterpiece's Sherlock. In this clip from the series two premiere, Benedict Cumberbatch's ever observant Sherlock Holmes may have finally met his match in the seductive Irene Adler, played by Lara Pulver.
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THORN: I want to ask you a sort of a personal question.
CUMBERBATCH: Sure.
THORN: And you can answer this to the extent that you feel comfortable.
CUMBERBATCH: Sure.
THORN: Quite a while ago, you were carjacked and abducted-
CUMBERBATCH: Yeah.
THORN: -in South Africa while shooting an entirely different project.
CUMBERBATCH: Yeah. That's right.
THORN: This was in 2004 I believe.
CUMBERBATCH: Yeah.
THORN: And you know, the trauma associated with that, I can only im- I can only presume must have been tremendous. And I wonder how going through that experience affected your life.
CUMBERBATCH: Well, it's interesting. I mean, I- there's- One event where I can empathise with Sherlock's impatience. I think it made me for a while that was the hardest thing for anyone around me to deal with was that I yearned for a life less ordinary with every second I had to breathe because I came face to face with some very plain facts. One is that you die on your own, no matter who you're with, or who you're leaving behind, you have to face death on your own. And also the fact that I was too young to die made me angry to live, if that makes any kind of a sense. So I had a sort of profound insight really, and a fantastic dinner party anecdote at the hands of these people who, you know, it could have been a lot worse, I could have been left with scars, physical and emotionally that could have been a lot worse. I wasn't beaten up, I was pushed around a bit, and tied up and put in the boot of a car as well as the side of the road and had a gun put to my head, but I wasn't pistol whipped, I wasn't beaten with a stick, I wasn't kicked, I wasn't raped, I wasn't cut, you know there was an awful lot that didn't happen that I can be thankful for, because ultimately it was a small event in a very big country, and the next day there was a newspaper headline to give perspective that immediately rationalised what had happened to us, and you know to give a context for how this is something to be got over rather than be traumatised by. A man was hijacked- carjacked at the side of- not at the side of the road, at the crossing, and the guy panicked and shot him before he even knew what was in the car, and there was a two-rand coin, which is, I mean it's decimal points, doesn't even value a cent, and a lighter, that's all that was in his car. There was the car and the guy got caught and I don't even know if he was shot as well or whether he was taken down, but it was a very very big event in my life, but it's one that I've learnt from rather than been traumatised from. I went to see a counselor the minute after it happened that we had that on offer, and one of the other actors that I was with did, and the other actress did, and I think it was harder for them. I'm not going to speak for them on this programme, but I think you know the main way it changed me was it made me- I- in the media aftermath was that I... well, I was, I cried the first time I felt the sun on my face the next day. You know, there were a lot of sort of almost born-again resurrected feelings, this thing of the preciousness and wonderful and beauty that is life, I mean it's just such a blessing. I know that sounds a bit soppy, but when you've come near death, you've really, really, really learned to re-evaluate it and appreciate it, and that's a great thing to get in your twenties, because you start, you know using your vivacity not to kick against the idea of, oh I'm immortal, there's no such thing as mortality, but to embrace your mortality and take control of it, so I went off and skydove, and I swam with sharks, and I did lots of kind of crazy, adrenaline-fueled stuff, but I also traveled on my own for a month afterwards around Namibia and Capetown, and sat and it sat in my feelings, pondered it, dwelled on it, moved around in it, dismissed it, came back to it, you know, it's always there, and I'm fine talking about it. It's a fucking exhausting anecdote – I'm not going to excuse my swearing there because it's a really big story to go into.
THORN: Seems reasonable.
CUMBERBATCH: It is in this instance, I think you can believe me on that and I think people might understand, it's a big story, and it's a wonderful one to tell, but I do kind of feel a bit pale and worn after going through it, but it's not something... I don't know if- you know, I've had near death experiences since then, and that's obviously been the most acute one, I should say. I would say, rather. But I've got nothing other than good out of it really. I think the positive drive you get out of wanting to live a life less ordinary has borne fruit I think. You know I quelled the other things in me that sort of knocked my equilibrium or calm about a bit. I've kind of dealt with a lot of those. Yeah, so I mean it kind of, it happened, not for a reason, because I don't think these things do, it just, I was in that place at that time. But it was an extraordinary, extraordinary thing, and it's- It has definitely shaped part of who I am.
THORN: Were you able to find a way to... to find equilibrium again? I mean, to get ?? did it help you-
CUMBERBATCH: Yeah, I mean, I had the job for a start, so I had to focus on a very different reality and set of circumstances to my own, and that was a massive- as it is in an actor's life, it is a massive headspace to occupy. And then to settle the equilibrium, yeah, it took time, of course it took time, and you know, I struggled with it, and with the other two actors, and you know, you go through- Well, I don't know that you in general go through, one goes through in general, but I certainly went through the thing of, wow, I need innoculating, I need to just be knocked out, you know, drink a lot of whiskey and take a sleeping pill, then I got ill because I came off the sleeping pill and then that day passed and then I was completely fine again. That was- I had a very sort of accelerated experience on the night and a very accelerated recovery. And I went to see the counselor twice, the second time he says, 'You're more than fine. You are. You're a strong man, you're going to be good.' And I believed him, and he's right. (chuckles) Thank God. But you know, yeah, of course, it's rosy, but it takes you a while to- I mean, extraordinary things happened on that and I don't know how much you've read about it but one of the things that happened was as we found our salvation in this roadside curio shop that was run off the back of this other drive-through safari park where all these cooperatives had been making woven baskets and fantastic, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful original artifacts, carvings and bowls made out of wires and recycled beads and just extraordinary objects and it was run by about three or four women who were in this hut and there were two or three men standing guard because it was a roadside truck stop for the night, so people would come and you know, get some Coca-Cola or whatever or just relieve themselves and have a gossip, and that was our- that was the light on the horizon we ran to after we discovered that we were actually finally left alone tied at the side of the road and they'd gone. And when I was there I had- my shoelace was still tied around my right hand, I hadn't bothered untying it, and as I was telling the story and these women were clucking and tutting and ticking and just, and crying and shaking their heads, saying 'For shame, for shame! They steal from us too, they steal from the poor, it's so bad, we're so sorry this happened to you in our country.' It was profoundly moving, and then to add to that, this hand came out, this black hand came out and untied the thing that had been used for my bondage of my white flesh and the whole thing just snowballed in my head, everything, everything, everything we've- well, whites have done to that culture and just the whole thing suddenly smashed in, and it was a profoundly moving moment that- and I looked up into this man's face having being scared by the men that were there initially because, could they be part of the gang because obviously everybody, I know especially because we had our head to the ground and our eyes averted from their face because they didn't want us to i- If you identify them, it's- you're a far more likely target for a killing, so you practice hard at not witnessing what's going on, and to be able to look into a black man's face in the night in South Africa and say thank you with tears running down your face as he takes away this final sort of token I guess of the night's trauma, it was- That was wonderful, and I- that was a huge part of the healing. And I wrote to him soon afterwards to explain that to him and he understood exactly what I meant.
THORN: Well, I really appreciate you taking the time to be on our show, Benedict-
CUMBERBATCH: That's a pleasure.
THORN: It was really nice to talk to you.
CUMBERBATCH: Absolute pleasure. I hope that was all right.
THORN: Benedict Cumberbatch is the star of Sherlock. The season finale airs Sunday, May 20th on PBS. It's available- the second series is available on DVD on May 22nd.
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Date: 2012-05-19 06:40 pm (UTC)Thank you
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